Comments on: Confessions of a Married Girl Who Knows Nothing About Divorce

By: Loving Marriage: Married With Forever in Mind?

Loving Marriage: Married With Forever in Mind? — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:16:57 +0000

[...] started with a post from Kathleen, explaining that the way she was raised meant that divorce has never been an option to her, her [...]

By: Sarah

Sarah — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:30:22 +0000

Well, I know I’m at the polar end of this debate, mainly because I’m not Christian and do not belief in/entertain the notion of an afterlife. But I also don’t want marriage for myself, not because I don’t believe in it, but because I simply don’t feel it’s a good fit for me. I don’t take my commitments and my relationships lightly. I’m partial to long-term commitments, to oath ceremonies, to living out what’s left of life with a partner (preferably someone who could also be a best friend). But if there ever came a time when the relationship was no longer productive and successful, I imagine separation might become an option.

This is completely unromantic, but I do perceive my relationships in a sense like jobs. There’s a certain degree of work and effort and education that go into them — not to mention time — but if the position was no longer making me happy or making me into a better person or challenging me, I might consider applying for a different position. Is this selfish? Oh yes. But at the same time, I’m also trying to be as fair and honest as possible in the best interest of all parties involved.

So divorce? I don’t like the thought. I don’t think pledging your life to someone and walking away from those vows when the going gets tough shows much character. I believe, whether in marriage or a long-term engagement of sorts, the couple should fight it out with everything they have until they can’t do it anymore. Relationships, like people, are fluid and subject to change. Sometimes they work and emulsify, and other times they become more like oil and vinegar (or were they always?).

By: Heather Greene

Heather Greene — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:37:33 +0000

I really enjoyed Ben’s post on this topic from his short-lived blog. He talked about how he found himself feeling superior to people who were divorced or who had divorced parents. He realized that this was wrong and was musing about it. I’d like to hear more about this! Perhaps a hubby guest post? Or you could discuss your own experiences with this issue?
Funnily enough, this is exactly how I feel about people who are often ill. Not terminally or seriously ill! I’m talking about people who are chronically sniffly and headachey, etc. Especially when they complain about it. I feel superior because I’m almost never sick, and I credit myself with a good diet and taking care of myself, most of which is totally innaccurate. Anyway, this is obviously something I need to work on.
Thanks for another thought-provoking post!

By: Kathleen Quiring

Kathleen Quiring — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:41:48 +0000

I think you’re right on track with your thinking, Zeinab!

By: Zeinab

Zeinab — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:53:19 +0000

While there are justifiable reasons for divorce, as cited above, such as physical/emotional abuse, affairs, alcoholism, etc., there are cases of divorce that seem to stem from a misperception of what marriage means/is. I don’t believe that the accessibility of divorce is a problem, but rather a lack of clear reflection by those considering marriage on what marriage is, or should mean, in the long term. For instance, from what I’ve heard, though I should verify it with some credible research, is that the most common cause of divorce is due to financial issues, which to me, is an issue that should be addressed prior to marriage. Of course, there are unpredictable factors that may/will occur, but to have made a genuine commitment to one another from the start should at least keep divorce at a distance.
Maybe in some cases, couples have a skewed conception that marriage is a love-affair, thanks to Hollywood, and so disappointment ensues. I think more talk and less fantasy in such cases could be a solution.
Perhaps my solution is naive due to inexperience, but it just seems that some cases of divorce stem from a misunderstanding of marriage.

By: Kathleen Quiring

Kathleen Quiring — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:40:34 +0000

Wow, Sarah Liz, it sounds like you’ve thought about this issue quite a bit — which is great! I’m so glad you’ve decided to share! I think I’m right with you in wishing that I never had to witness divorce, but understanding that sometimes there doesn’t seem to be any better option. I also agree that folks need to be better educated and equipped for marriage, and that we are a very self-centered generation. Thanks for all your thoughts!

By: Kathleen Quiring

Kathleen Quiring — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:36:50 +0000

I know what you mean, Sue — the things that are good for keeping couples together (a strong need for each other, like you mentioned) can also be bad things when they don’t allow what is sometimes necessary. Thanks for your thoughts!

By: Sue

Sue — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:34:17 +0000

I think there are so many grey areas to divorce. The whole remarrying before your spouse has passed on, is very tricky. I don’t consider it to be very fair. Especially if you are the person being mistreated or cheated on.
As mennonites, we aren’t exposed to divorce very often. However, we are exposed to unhealthy marriages. A marriage can be miserable, but no way out is seen. Because women aren’t very often educated enough to support themselves and the children. And men don’t want to cook or take care of kids. They rely on each other which is good, seems healthy, but at the same time, I think a lot of people would be happier divorced.
There are many cases I can think of that would easily “qualify” for divorce according to the bible. What’s worst, thinking you’re a bad christian for leaving or getting mistreated or abused and staying? Not like staying together is modelling healthy relationships to the kids when there is no communication or affection, which is often the case. (this is just my observation of some mennonite families, not all are like this) I was raised with an excellent example for marriage, which I am very thankful for.
I think this is an excellent topic for discussion.

By: Sarah Liz

Sarah Liz — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:09:55 +0000

I’ve read your blog for a while, I found it over on EngagedMarriage.com. I really enjoy reading your entries!

I am a Christian, but not Catholic and I grew up with all sorts of various religious/spiritual view points.

I am married myself, and want to stay that way. But I also know that it takes TWO to make a marriage work. I do believe deep down that God wants us to be happy and have joy in our lives–sure, He will test us, and give us trials and tribulations in the process, but overall, I don’t think we were put here to be miserable.

That said, if every person (married or not) realized that their own true happiness and satisfaction with their life was truly up to THEM (and not their spouse, job, kids, etc.) there would be a lot less divorce in this country. I agree out society, and particularly our generation (I’m just a few years older than you are and I’ve been married just over a year) is extremely self-centered and all about “me, me, me” which does NOT work in a marriage. It can’t.

I had NO clue about how hard marriage can really be, I just knew that it must not be easy because but I come from a VERY divorced family (mom, grandma, Dad, etc.). But, I can honestly say that they’re all still good people, many of them Christians.

I don’t believe that all Sin is equal, so I don’t think a person getting divorced (due to infidelity or abuse/neglect) is not nearly as much of a sin as say, murdering someone.

I think way too many people rush into marriage and absolutely rush into divorce–both have enormous consequences and responsibilities. Neither is easy. Marriage is wonderful and joyful and unlike anything I’ve ever done, I am so glad I got married. But, even with all the “work” pre-marital counseling (I did most of it on my own) and books/blogs I read, I STILL didn’t know much about marriage. I think people should be REQUIRED (in all faiths, even in non-faith situations) to under go pre-marital counseling and should be put in “testy situations” similar to those of marriage to really see if they’re ready, willing and able. (And no, I don’t mean co-habitation. I’m talking about more of a “pre-marriage institute with tests, trials and so on.) A lot of people think they are, but they’re not. However, is anyone ever REALLY ready for anything in life? You kind of just take it one day at a time and learn to go with it as it happens, which is wonderful!

I do want to add that I’ve seen many divorcees grow greatly after their divorce, and I’ve seen many crumble. Divorce is sad, tragic and incredibly difficult, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and I certainly don’t want to go through it myself. But, if a spouse has been unfaithful (i.e. one of the 10 Commandments “Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery”) and/or has an addiction to drugs, sex, alcachol or gambling, and/or is outright verbally/mentally/emotionally/sexually/physically abusive–than by all means, divorce is the better option.

I don’t like seeing so many people divorce, I don’t think most people are willing to do the hard work that marriage requires and that’s sad, very, very sad. However, I whole completely disagree with “Absolutely NO divorce, for ANY reason, no matter what.” In theory, that’d be great–and I wish it was true. But, we ARE all human and there are consequences to actions. WHY on Earth SHOULD a person stay in an unfaithful, abusive marriage? They shouldn’t.

Any of the above reasons that I just named are absolutely reason for divorce. That is my honest belief–and I don’t believe it’s a sin to divorce IF a person is divorcing for THOSE reasons.

That all being said, I do NOT believe in divorce for ANY other reason. If you can’t agree on how to fold towels, or they leave lights on all the darn time, or you always leave stuff everywhere, or you can’t agree on where to live or what not….the little things are so important in a marriage and they definitely add up–but far too many people divorce entirely too quickly for stupid reasons.

I also think a form neglect is a form of absuve–if you have a spouse who outright REFUSES to participate with you–in marriage, in conversation, in house keeping, child rearing, sex, etc….who will NOT do ANY of that, than that’s NOT a partner and NOT a marriage. And a person can only take so much of that.

Marriage is, and should be, a partnership. It takes TWO. And sometimes you just don’t know, or find out MANY MANY years later, after much hurt, begging, pleading and counseling that you’re married to a person simply UN-WILLING (and perhaps unable due to physical/mental illness–not saying people with those conditions can’t be married, because they can and many are very successful at it, but sometimes, those reasons make a person unable to cope with life–period). take part in the marriage. That’s neglect, and I think that is a reason for divorce…BUT…not before the neglected spouse has clearly stated what he/she needs and wants. NOT before both spouses have undergone counseling and honest personal evaluation and NOT because your spouse didn’t kiss you good night one night or skip a family outing once or twice a month. I’m talking about YEARS of neglect. I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, this topic is fascinating and I know much more about divorce than I do marriage, but I LOVE being married. It is one of the best things I’ve EVER done and I absolutely believe that marriage is a gift from God. It is meant to be cultivated, enjoyed celebrated and reveered.

I really wish our society focused more on marriage than on divorce. And I wish people knew more about being married before they actually got married. I am blessed with a husband who WANTS to work at it, and I thank God for that everyday–thankfully, I do too!

I adore your blog, Kathleen, have a wonderful day!

Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz

By: Kathleen Quiring

Kathleen Quiring — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:07:07 +0000

Scott, you understand me perfectly. I am in the exact same position you are. I am “anti-divorce,” and I think it’s tragic that the church currently has just as bad a track record as the rest of the world, but I also hate all the blame and judgment that people in churches often experience when they divorce. I agree that divorce has become “too easy” in many respects, and yet I know that legalistic rules are not the answer, either. What are we to do?

I’m comforted to hear that someone else is on the same page I am. Maybe we can learn together.